The sad part is that the idea behind DLCs (to develop further content for a game already released, in exchange for additional money) is reasonable. Or it would be, if shitty developers didn’t abuse it to the point that it stopped being “downloadable content” to become “dumb and lazy cashgrab”.
I also think that CA isn’t just being benign with this statement, or his whole “let us not be arseholes” approach towards development. He’s being smart; player trust might be hard to measure but it has direct impact on word-of-mouth advertisement and piracy, so it’s basically the difference between “everybody knows it, plenty bought it” and “the few ones who know it pirated it”.
Another excellent example of this working is Factorio.
The original game doesn’t cost a fortune, it’s made by a small extremely dedicated team. They polished it so hard the shine made everything else look like vanta black. Playing Factorio ruins other games because the depth and quality of everything else is so poor in comparison.
The game came out in like 2013 early access. Full release completed in 2020. A decade after initial launch, they are going to offer a DLC, that will cost money.
Absolutely happy to pay for a DLC for that perfection.
I’m not happy to pay money for that DLC.
Are you kidding me? Already have 1400 hours in the game. And if this DLC is gonna double the base game, I’m screwed.
I’m at 5500 hours and haven’t played since Jan 2023…
I’m so fucked
Drugs might be the better option at this point.
IMO Wube (Factorio’s devs) is a lot like ConcernedApe, when it comes to not violate the players’ trust. That’s why for example Factorio never goes on sales - because the people there believe that it would be disrespectful to charge a larger price to some than others, simply because the others delayed buying it. (Cough Paradox Interactive aka Hipsters’ EA cough cough)
They also have the decency to offer you a demo so you can make an informed decision before buying it, in a clear contrast with certain companies that expect you to buy it blind.
About the DLC: I’m one who typically pirates games, mind you, but I’m probably buying it, just like I did mit the base game. The base game isn’t incomplete or anything like that; fuck, people compare it with crack for a reason - it’s functional, polished, and fun to the point of addictiveness. And the FFF (devlogs) clearly show enough content to be worth it.
Yep.
I pirated Factorio way back when it first came out (0.72?) and I actually didn’t like it. It was… Bad.
A few months later someone suggested I give it another go, so I pirated it again. It was a lot better. Like way better. I did a couple of months and was like … this is soooo good I’m buying it.
I will pre buy the dlc the moment it’s available.
Agreed. If CA charged a few bucks for the 1.6 update, I’d have bought it without hesitation. Same with 1.5.
The best example right now is Factorio. There’s a new expansion coming out in October. It isn’t free, but it adds basically an entire new game on top of an already excellent and fully fleshed out game. I’m gonna buy it the day it goes on sale without question and without waiting for reviews.
Then there’s crap like Starfield where they added 1 mission for $7.
Slay the Spire is current $8.50. Starbound is $4.50 (both are on sale rn for future readers) if you’re looking for a space game.
Factorio DLC is going to break global productivity for a month when it’s released in October.
Every single engineer and factorio fan I know have taken that day off. Nothing is getting engineered for like 4 days minimum
I’ve booked 3 days haha.
I’ve not touched factorio since Jan 2023. 5500 hours till then.
You would think that the kind of person who loves Factorio knows the rule: never book launch day off.
the idea behind DLCs
Back when they were called “Expansion Packs” and came on a disc for players who didn’t have a good internet connection. You can trace the death of the expac and the rise of MTX in the postlaunch monetization of Bethesda’s biggest games - Morrowind through Skyrim all have entire extra games that you can graft onto them for a premium price, but then during Skyrim’s release and re-release era they dip their toes into MTX via the Creation Club, to their total embrace of the concept in FO76.
But actually I think that blaming Bethesda is a bit of a red herring. The real dawn of DLC as we know it today wasn’t horse armor, it was Halo 2’s additional multiplayer maps. Microsoft went from releasing maps for free to charging for early access to maps that became free eventually to making everyone buy the maps. At around the same time they forced Valve to charge for Left for Dead 2 maps that were released for free on PC. MS really took point on conditioning gamers to lower their expectations for post launch content.
call of duty still charges money for dlc maps. nobody even plays them. and they still cost money
I’ve purchased Stardew Valley on 3 different platforms. I’ve never done something stupid like that with any other game. And idc because it’s only like $15 and he seems like a good guy. You take care of us, we take care of you.
Yeah, agreed, a good DLC is awesome. The example that comes to mind for me is From Soft. Top notch content, delivered well after the release of top notch games, at a fair price, which expand on the level and boss design and improve it every time, while stepping up the difficulty for those who loved and fully completed the base content.
I wish every game I ever loved would get DLC like that.
30 million copies sold. even if he only made a dollar into his pocket for each sale…hes doing alright.
The Ape family name is honorable
What about the Bored Ape?
Black sheep of the family
That’s fine for him, but let’s not take this as a guideline for the entire industry.
There are plenty of talented, creative, and committed developers who are trying to turn their dream game into their life’s work.
For most of them, the only way they can survive spending another 5 years working on the same title post-launch is by charging for the new stuff they make.
Yeah easy for him to say, he’s a one-man operation, so he gets ALL the profit to himself. Probably millions of dollars at this point… he’s set for life. He doesn’t really need DLC money. But other devs probably do.
There is a difference between the DLC that is one and whatever the hell nowadays is practice. When its something like the eldenring DLC a dlc is absolutely fine.
I don’t think charging for content is the problem, it’s just the way some companies do it.
Exactly. A good content DLC should be similar to buying a new game, but cheaper for both the devs and players.
CA is too good for us.
I suppose that’s nice. Although I do not see the problem with charging for updates, with multiplayer it’s a problem because people might get pressured into buying something they might otherwise not get it because of friends, but with the single player game I can’t see the issue. And why doesn’t the dev deserve to be compensated?
Charging for updates isn’t intrinsically bad. A good expansion pack at a fair price can be a good deal for both the players and the devs. But there is a modern trend of games trying to squeeze players for every dollar they can get; and when content is deliberately held back in the hopes of selling it for a bit more money later, it starts to become a bit perverse. The game itself can become an advertisement for selling more bits of the game in the future - and it just devalues the experience.
In the specific case of Stardew Valley, the game is a major hit - and it continues to sell well. So even though existing players are getting the new content for free, the developer is still going to get paid. Obviously he could get a lot more if he charged for it, but he has decided he doesn’t need that. He’d rather just make the game as good as he can make it.
Here’s a personal story of mine, about a different game: Several years ago I was selected to be a beta tester for a major game franchise. I was a very well known member of that community, know for making custom balance patches and bugfixes - and so they wanted me to test their new release. I was pretty excited to be a part of that. But when I got my first beta copy, I didn’t really play it much because the game barely worked. It crashed very frequently, and so my feedback was basically just “it crashes when I do this”. I figured it wasn’t worth trying to give balance ideas when the game was in that state. Anyway… time went on, and things didn’t improve much. There were some graphics changes and a bit of UI work… but it was still super unstable. The release date was getting pretty close. But before it was even possible to do a full playthrough without constant reloads to dodge game-ending bugs, there was detailed plans posted on the beta forums talking about the first 4 DLC packs that would be released after the game launched.
I stopped taking AAA games seriously after that. I was totally disillusioned. They were launching their AAA game in non-functional state, with the hope of fixing the worst bugs in a day 1 patch. Very little useful playtesting was done, and so the features of the game were a bit slap-dash, but yet somehow they were dividing up content for as many DLCs packs as possible. They didn’t even have a functional game and yet they were talking about how to sell more stuff. It was a real eye-opening experience for me; and it really colours the way I see other games that launch in a buggy state, where pretty much the only thing that works is the in-game store.
So yeah, I can appreciate the view that maybe charging for updates is a slippy slope that Concerned Ape doesn’t want to step onto; even if he does have very solid footing for if he wanted to tread that ground a bit.
The Factorio Devs made this Blogpost some time ago about how to go forward with development. It basically boiled down to developing a big (paid) expansion pack. I would be totally fine with Stardew Valley doing the same. However, going for free updates was discarded for Factorio because they have a “smaller but more dedicated audience [compared to Terraria and Minecraft]”. I don’t think that applies to Stardew Valley so free updates might be the way to go.
I don’t know so much about Terraria because I don’t really play it but Minecraft makes most of its money through merchandise. The game is more vehicle to sell green plushies and funko pops than it is to make money itself.
Minecraft was just the example they used in the post but I agree. Minecraft is no indie game studio anymore atleast since Microsoft took over. But at least the free update policy hasn’t changed since the takeover
What about an expansion. Could I pay you for that please?
Sure there’s ways to just throw money at them if you want
The game is closed-source. Who cares? It’s already garbage at that point
Nice
