From a US perspective, I see these tactics being used far more extensively by wealthy individuals and corporate interests than I do Chinese interests. Unfortunately, our government and especially our politicians are often directly involved in spreading misinformation and suppressing the truth. We need strategies that function outside of government to close the gaps between reality and public perception.
It’s almost like they’re acting like a public corporation.
How did you get from a vote on a particular wording of a particular resolution to “not supporting Israel”? Where did I say that anyone said the revolution would “fix everything”?
When someone says that an abstention from a vote is “kissing Netanyaho’s ass”, it seems pretty apparent that the consider a lack of a yes vote as a moral failing.
Maybe it’s a reaction to the ignorant self righteous ignorant fury that’s been flooding every discussion on Palestine for months. That kind of mass delusion doesn’t respond to carefully parsed polite responses. In any case, I’ve gotten tired of pretending it’s not idiotic.
Yet Ukraine has been successfully armed by the west, so it’s clearly manageable. The scale between Ukraine and Israel/Gaza is also a huge difference.
The one thing that Russia couldn’t replace would be the iron dome. I’ll agree that’s no small thing.
I doubt there would be much. Iran is almost as dependent on Russia as Israel has been on the US. There would be some token diplomatic protests, but I doubt it would be anything more than signaling. Countries don’t have friends, they have interests. Iran’s interests are far better served by Russia than by supporting Palestine.
Hamas’s entire strategy in launching their attack was to provoke Israel to overreact, which would then prompt Palestinian allies like Lebanon and Iran to get involved. The first part worked beyond their expectations, but Iran and Lebanon haven’t taken the bait.
We’re I at my PC I might dump a boatload of links to lemmy comments but, since I’m not, I’ll just tell you to do your own search. It’s incredibly prevalent in the more “tankie” subs, but they show up pretty much everywhere the subject is discussed.
The frustrating thing is that there are two groups doing it. There are right wing trolls pretending they care but actually just taking advantage to damage Democrats, but there are also good people arguing for the best of causes, but not understanding the dynamics at play.
Words fail me.
I don’t doubt it.
Definitely not Iran, but Russia and China are definitely possibilities. The only reason it seems impossible is that Israel has been a US satellite since it’s founding. If that tie is severed, what’s possible changes.
There are three real powers in the Middle East, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Iran. Two are in the US sphere, and one is in Russia’s. Russia would live to pull ahead, and China desperately wants a solid foothold in the region.
Russia specifically would see a lot of tangible benefits. Israel has a top-notch defense industry with many technologies that Russia is missing. Protecting “the Jews” would also play into Russia’s narratives about fighting Nazis in Ukraine and elsewhere.
The US has been pressuring Israel to spare civilians since before they went into Gaza. That’s just reality. They haven’t followed the disastrous strategies that critics have demanded for exactly the reasons I explained.
Netanyaho is a far right maniac who’s popularity was based entirely on national security and who was facing multiple criminal allegations. There was no way that he wasn’t going to go hard into Gaza. The US could have pulled all aid and weapons deals on day one, and it wouldn’t have changed a damn thing - except that Israel would now be a Russian satellite state.
Ramping pressure over time is/was the best available strategy. That doesn’t mean I think the US did everything right. That doesn’t mean that Biden’s personal positions on Israel aren’t deeply troubling.
I’ll say it again. You got exactly the resolution you were demanding, and exactly the result that people like me said you would get from it. Take the L and learn something.
The ceasefire vote passed, and just like everyone predicted it will have zero impact on the genocide in progress. The only impact it has was to further limit the ability of the US to pressure Israel to not advance into Rafah. You got your resolution, and now the situation is worse. Yet, here you are doubling down.
I totally appreciate (and share) your zeal in wanting the slaughter to end (assuming that is actually your objective), but this development clearly illustrates the deep flaws in this kind of criticism, and how little you understand about foreign policy and negotiation tactics.
The US has one negotiation point left to keep Israel out of Rafah, and that’s the weapons. Once that is played, the only other choice would be to allow the genocide to continue, or intervine militarily. Thankfully the US didn’t play that card already, and the Biden administration is sending clear signals to Israel that it’s on the table.
Israel has other options for aid and weapons, but they only become viable if the relationship with the US is severed. Once that happens, Palestine is done.
BTW: Abstaining from the vote was, if anything, kissing Putin’s ass, not Netanyaho. There were sticking points between Russia and the US, and the US blinked. Anyone who actually followed the negotiations would understand that abstaining means the US decided the resolution was too important to hold up over specific language.
This is very similar to the last such resolution to pass. Russia and America couldn’t agree on language, so both agreed to abstain. This time, Russia got their way while the US took the high road.
A few years ago when I was working from home and on the phone all day, I much preferred my landline. My cell service was decent, but the landline was better. No dropped calls, no static or garbled audio (from my side anyways), and no latency causing me to talk over other callers. I always hated getting on calls when I was remote from my home office.
Their interests aren’t generally all that aligned, so that helps. It’s pretty obvious that the garbage coming out of the cable news networks is at a minimum deeply sympathetic to American corporate interests, if not straight up misinformation.