What a fucking disappointment this guy is turning out to be compared to all the love he got on his campaign. Not that I’d prefer Oz by any means, but it’s still pretty crushing.
I’m increasingly sure that the rising tide of never-Biden-ers is going to send Trump back into the White House. People need to be pragmatic and strategic about their voting and encourage others to do the same. So I understand WHY he felt a need to say stupid shit like this.
But if you’re not allowed to criticize Biden without being banished to Siberia, then he’s actually insufficiently different from Trump.
I’d bet Biden would not agree with Fetterman’s message. He’s not a whiny little thin-skinned gremlin the way Trump is. Based on his political career, he can even update platforms and change policy based on that feedback. So yeah, lay down the criticism to him re: Israel, he deserves it, and enough voices might actually change the foreign policy here. Do not tell the critics their votes aren’t welcome. Their votes are still needed. And hopefully they’re smart enough to know that NOT voting for Biden will create even worse outcomes, even while they continue clearly and loudly speaking up.
I’ve said this before and got downvoted but I’ll say it again. I will not tell a Muslim person or a Palestinian that they should hold their nose and vote for Biden. If the guy in charge is actively supporting a genocide and is providing the weapons that are killing your family, friend’s family, or just someone with your same religious beliefs, I don’t think we have the right to tell them they are wrong to abstain from voting for the pro genocide of their people guy. If a president was actively supporting the Nazis in killing my people, I would not have voted for that president.
It is the candidates responsibility to listen to his constituents. Not be finger wagged into voting them.
I agree that we shouldn’t shame someone in that situation.
But the counterfactual still exists – if Biden loses, that means Trump wins. And under Trump, things will be far worse. If we’re calling Biden genocidal for taking a cynical and cowardly approach to the conflict, then I am not even sure what word can possibly be extreme enough to describe the guy who actively wants all Muslims and Arabs dead.
I fundamentally disagree with the view that your vote is some signal of deep personal convictions. Voting should always be strategic. The more strategic, the better. That’s also why how you vote in the presidential election as a resident of California can be VERY different from how you vote as a resident of Georgia. I’d love to see a significant number of people in places like New York and Colorado voting third party in protest – because it’s not going to be enough to influence outcomes in that race, but may have a real and positive effect on future politics.
I just want everyone to think very, very carefully about what the counterfactuals are. In all things.
Almost no real voters view voting as a chess move. Emotion matters. People can yell at what are essentially political junkies all they want on this message board, but it’s not going to influence all those marginal voters with other stuff going on, and they’re at risk if there are big emotional issues going on (like a genocidal war). You don’t solve that problem by talking about greater evils and strategic voting.
What a fucking disappointment this guy is turning out to be compared to all the love he got on his campaign. Not that I’d prefer Oz by any means, but it’s still pretty crushing.
I’m increasingly sure that the rising tide of never-Biden-ers is going to send Trump back into the White House. People need to be pragmatic and strategic about their voting and encourage others to do the same. So I understand WHY he felt a need to say stupid shit like this.
But if you’re not allowed to criticize Biden without being banished to Siberia, then he’s actually insufficiently different from Trump.
I’d bet Biden would not agree with Fetterman’s message. He’s not a whiny little thin-skinned gremlin the way Trump is. Based on his political career, he can even update platforms and change policy based on that feedback. So yeah, lay down the criticism to him re: Israel, he deserves it, and enough voices might actually change the foreign policy here. Do not tell the critics their votes aren’t welcome. Their votes are still needed. And hopefully they’re smart enough to know that NOT voting for Biden will create even worse outcomes, even while they continue clearly and loudly speaking up.
I’ve said this before and got downvoted but I’ll say it again. I will not tell a Muslim person or a Palestinian that they should hold their nose and vote for Biden. If the guy in charge is actively supporting a genocide and is providing the weapons that are killing your family, friend’s family, or just someone with your same religious beliefs, I don’t think we have the right to tell them they are wrong to abstain from voting for the pro genocide of their people guy. If a president was actively supporting the Nazis in killing my people, I would not have voted for that president.
It is the candidates responsibility to listen to his constituents. Not be finger wagged into voting them.
I agree that we shouldn’t shame someone in that situation.
But the counterfactual still exists – if Biden loses, that means Trump wins. And under Trump, things will be far worse. If we’re calling Biden genocidal for taking a cynical and cowardly approach to the conflict, then I am not even sure what word can possibly be extreme enough to describe the guy who actively wants all Muslims and Arabs dead.
I fundamentally disagree with the view that your vote is some signal of deep personal convictions. Voting should always be strategic. The more strategic, the better. That’s also why how you vote in the presidential election as a resident of California can be VERY different from how you vote as a resident of Georgia. I’d love to see a significant number of people in places like New York and Colorado voting third party in protest – because it’s not going to be enough to influence outcomes in that race, but may have a real and positive effect on future politics.
I just want everyone to think very, very carefully about what the counterfactuals are. In all things.
Exactly right. A vote is a chess move, not a manifesto.
Almost no real voters view voting as a chess move. Emotion matters. People can yell at what are essentially political junkies all they want on this message board, but it’s not going to influence all those marginal voters with other stuff going on, and they’re at risk if there are big emotional issues going on (like a genocidal war). You don’t solve that problem by talking about greater evils and strategic voting.
Almost all voters strategically choose to vote for a candidate they don’t actually like.